(with spoilers, if you haven't seen it)
But the further away I am from the final episodes the more I'm with this guy, Brad: Battlestar's "Daybreak:" The worst ending in the history of on-screen science fiction.
It's a long essay. Here's my shorter version.
By "worst", he means disappointing. I definitely agree. Ron Moore had set the bar so much higher than anyone expected, and thus had such a very long way to fall. The ending for V may have been crap, for example, but the whole show was kind-of-crap, so no problem. But Moore set out with some very ambitious goals and succeeded in a glorious way--until the end--when he completely contradicts the basic principles and characters that he set out to create. (For those of you who've read Pullman's Dark Materials I'd say the same thing applies [but worse])
Evidently Moore started the show with a manifesto that included the following tenets:
1. Keep the science real.
2. Avoid SF cliches (time travel, god-like powers)
3. Focus on strong, real characters, no stereotypes.
4. Focus on realism.
He shat on all of those ideas and others, especially during the all-important, explain-it-all-ending.
3. Focus on strong, real characters, no stereotypes.
4. Focus on realism.
He shat on all of those ideas and others, especially during the all-important, explain-it-all-ending.
1. The science was bad, and just plain silly. Mitochondrial eve is a theoretical woman who gave us our mitochondria (first calculated by Hawaii's Dr. Cann, who made me grind up a bird once). Plenty of other women were alive at the time and making babies, but the point is that all males who passed on their genes at some point made babies with Hera/Eve or one of Hera's female ancestors, thus spreading her mitochondria. She's hardly the saviors of the human race. More like a galactic slut. And if she had died someone else would have taken her place. Not a big deal except that sooo much of the story was focussed on Hera as being the key to everything... and this is what Moore meant?!? Great.
2. It's obvious who he wanted us to see as being behind the curtain & pulling the strings. Even if he just HAD to do it, there were so many ways he could have done it better! At the very least, change Baltar's last words from "he" to "it", or "she", or "they" or something! How hard is that?!?
3. Complicated characters became simple agents doing "God's plan". Everyone who's spacey is an angel. The leader of a whole separate cylon faction ends his reign by shooting himself in the head. Apollo just wants to go exploring. And Moore said this about the ending: "it's the characters, stupid." Really? Huh.
4. Realism? Right. The second half was phoned in and a brainless way to tie up major characters and loose plot lines with one big, unrealistic bow. I will punch anyone in the face who says that the decision to leave all technology behind makes any fracking sense whatsoever. It is ridiculous. It contradicts everything they were fighting for during the entire run of the show. It points the finger at technology as the cause of all our ills instead of the human condition. Moore did it was because he couldn't leave any technology behind for realism's sake. He thought that having a parallel universe wasn't real enough, and finding the Galactica in modern-day Earth would be too jarring. Wow. Thanks. A whole population of space-faring people agree with one man's stupid idea to hunt with sticks for the rest of their life. That's much more realistic.
Anyway, that's my (+/- Brad's) two cents. I don't think we've ever actually discussed the ending in any detail... I'd be curious as to what you guys think about it now that we've all had some time to let it simmer.
55 comments:
MOORE RAPED OUR ADULT CHILDHOOD!!!!
I just want to know this. What would you have wanted Moore to do?
This is the underlying question i have with everyone who complains about impossible standard things like this. (I include myself in this paradigm, don't worry Fugu!)
Seriously though. We all complain about shit. it's true. We all complain that the man is ruining the lovely nostalgic childhood experiences with their own takes on things. We all wave our fists in the air and threaten the hell out of the man to make it all right in the end. That's a lot to ask of mortals. Most of these mortals grew up watching the same stuff we did.
I think it's odd how many directors will say things like "I never read a comic book" before making a movie about a comic book. It's as if they know how rabid the now adult fan base of said comic/TV/original version movie is.
I think we need to point the gun at ourselves and ask ourselves just what the fuck do we want that we become so angry at anyone who dares to touch our canonical crappy 70s/80s media?
Since when did we all become the authors of the tv/comics/movies that we so revere and guard like pit bulls? We didn't. Why the fuck do we think that revisions are personal attacks?
Remember I'm including myself in this. I think the ending was a slap in the face. I'm just asking why I think it was.
When I wrote "It's as if" I should have written "It is because".
Sorry bout that.
I'm wondering....Honestly wondering if we would have been happy with any ending.
Well, I think that article you linked to is an astonishing bit of nitpickery. I won't lie to you, though; Fugu--I've had quite a bit of whiskey.
I know this has been brewing since the last episode first aired. I gotta admit, as far as a spectacle to be viewed, I did like the last episode...but you're right. These are some pretty big holes. Especially the science and realism part. But the first half when they raided the colony...that was pretty good.
I think we're pretty much talking about the last hour of the finale. That first half was a mostly successful attempt to recapture the glory of the liberation of New Caprica, and we all know it. And I think we're all fine with it, yes?
We're discussing the tying up of all the threads, I believe.
"Crossroads". "Crossroads" was the episode that was the best thing on television, dude. I fight you for it. (besides, the finale gutted that opera house dream of any real meaning).
DUDES remember when they FTL'd the Galactica into the upper atmosphere just long enough to launch all their viper squadrons to cover the escape of all the civilian ships grounded on New Caprica? Then jumped back into the upper atmosphere right before they burned the hell up? That was some TACTICS, guys.
Heeero: yeah, the first half is crazy fun to watch.
Pony: I tend to always assume you've been drinking whisky. But yeah, I don't agree with everything he says, and I also can't believe you read all of that.
Panic: Hmm, very true. I think that's why I didn't post this a while ago. Who the hell am I to think that I could have done better? Jebus, I'd have made Galactica 1980 before anything like his reboot.
But it's not the revision part that bugs me, it's that the quality of the writing and the depth of the story and characters just went to crap in the span of half an hour. If I had to say, simple changes that I believe could have made it more consistent with *his* manifesto...
No fracking god-like powers!!! Why the hell did he need to do that! There was that running tension between polytheism and monotheism throughout the entire show, and he ends the argument with one cryptic sentence that not only explains nothing, but gives unnecessary credence to a single, male god. FEH. Personal bias at work here too, of course, but why not say the polytheists won? That'd have kept it much more interesting for me.
I am almost more bummed about the reverting to cavemen theme. That just kills me inside, and such an unrealistic move. I think an infinitely more interesting solution would have been to find the Galactica under some ancient Mayan temple. I'm insulted that he expects us to believe that people would realistically decide to give all that up. Guys who do that in real life are generally considered crazy. Oh, plus the whole anti-technology aspect of it. Also illogical and stupid.
I don't know what the hell he could have done about the Hera thing. He kind of wrote himself into a corner there. I guess I should just be happy he end it with her being all magical like the half-lizard-human "V" baby.
Ah yeah--the last hour, not half hour.
I guess I was thinking the best single scene on TV, but shit, yeah... the scene in Crossroads where they introduce the 4... that was super. As a whole though Crossroads was a little slow with some of the court scenes and all. Us fighting would be a fucking comedy, dude.
And OH man. the drop ship. Yup. Gud.
You know he hates when you call him that.
And hey... flipping through some of it--what the hell was the point of Baltar and Six with the baby in the visions? That went no where!
It'd have been sad, but maybe they should have killed off Helo and Boomer and those two could have raised Hera to be the galactic slut?
That would almost make some sense!
Did you guys know that Troy in Galactica 1980 was fucking BOXEY?
"You know he doesn't like that name."
-->
"You know they don't like that name."
"You know it doesn't like that name."
"You know Bob doesn't like that name."
I mean, come on!!!
Wait, are you really disputing that line? I think that was the saving grace of the whole 'Angels' bit of the finale. I think your hatred of monotheistic religions is shining through!
YES I'm really disputing that line. How did that save the whole angels thing? That's just related to how dumb the angels thing is!
...I don't hate all monotheistic religions.
Well, because, as cheap as it was, that was the "It's not what you think" that was needed in the last half of the finale. I think the writers had no choice but to break their own rules and try to make the ending larger than the beginning. I think they had to go for giant, and for most people, (including me, unfortunately) that involves invoking judeo-christian mythology, and then implying something larger. A shortcut yes, but I think for a good chunk of the population, it's an effective shortcut.
This is going to be a long thread, guys.
A judeo-christian god who doesn't like to be called god is still god. I don't see that as the "it's not what you think" moment that you do.
There's a ton of other mythologies he could have chosen from, and he really DID for a while with the humans believing in polytheism and all.
I think if he had gone that route he could have done something even larger that the judeo-christian dogma, and a hell of a lot more thought provoking.
"You know FSM doesn't like that name."
Well. I guess I'm just not as afraid of the monotheistic deity are you are.
Guys, the solution here is simple. Just stop watching the series at the mid-season finale, when they find the radioactive scorched hulk of Earth. It's the perfect nihilist ending.
For a very short while, I thought that WAS the ending.
That's a splendid idea, Kama. Now I just need to get me some of this stuff.
Ha! pig god has a point. I actually did think that was the end of the show there, and thought that was pretty brutally apt.
Fuge, I find it interesting that you feel that that modern day caveman is generally considered crazy.
I didn't get that message from the article at all.
I also think your rabid anti-monofascisticdiety-ism is shining through as well, dude.
I am also going to go out on a limb (in regards to this blog) and say that perhaps the anti-tech thing isn't as illogical and stupid as you might think. Short sighted, yes, but illogical and stupid? Not necessarily. I don't think the entire population would have been so willing to give everything up.. I did feel that was abrupt and poorly thought out, but I do think that from the survivor's standpoint, there was a lot about both cultures that both the humans and the Cylons would be willing to part with in order to co-exist and move on.
We have to take into account what they had gone through. We've never gone through anything like what they had all gone through. ( I'm gonna guess that none of us have ever served lengthy periods of time on an enormous crowded submarine being constantly bombarded by enemy submarines. It might make a person want to find a big wide open space, build a log cabin and rough it!)
There's a lot that people could make do with, but I don't believe they had to go back to zero. Perhaps they didn't. Perhaps the simple useful technology they brought with them degraded into dust over time. Perhaps modern archeologists haven't been able to make sense of that the Caprican Walmart coffee maker, so they put it on a shelf and label it "Pantheistic Diety; circa 148k B.C." Who knows. I'm not an apologist for the ending, I'm just saying that maybe we were left with an intentionally vague ending in that regard.
I did really dislike the Starbuck vanishing act. I like to think she just used a ninja technique and ran for the hills, forever confusing Apollo and keeping her origin and final fate a mystery.
Well as far as what they've gone through: their main reason behind four years of traveling through space was survival. I can't believe that everyone who's just survived one of the worst ordeals imaginable steps onto a foreign planet and says, "hey, this would be a great place to settle down after I throw away everything I know and that's kept me alive for the past 4 years."
Here's the reason Moore provided for the decision (just watched it again):
Apollo: No city, not this time... we break the cycle. Leave it all behind and start over.
Adama: ...The entire human race with nothing but the clothes on their back and some provisions.
Apollo: [about the natives] we can give them the best part of ourselves but not the baggage. Not the ships, the equipment, the technology, the weapons... If there's one thing that we should have learned its that our brains have always outraced our hearts. Our science charges ahead, our souls lag behind.
Here's why I find that completely illogical: It's completely illogical.
Apollo just said: Our brains always outrace our hearts. This is The Problem. Technology is associated with brains, therefore if we get rid of technology our problem is solved.
WHAT? Yes, technology is associated with what our brains produce when we rush ahead, but it's not the cause of it: that's the fucking HUMAN CONDITION.
If "our brains always outrace our hearts", then by your own admission, Apollo, the lucky few who survive after you get rid of everything that's kept them alive will likely race ahead and invent it all again. Which of course, happened.
Dumb dumb dumb dumb.
But really this is all secondary to the real reason Moore wrote this turd of events. Because we've never found evidence of technology in the ancient past IRL, he couldn't leave any behind in his show. He's said this. All this is is a half-assed way to solve that problem, but in my opinion it creates a much bigger problem. Boooooo, Mr. Moore!
Ok, so you're suggesting that the heart of the problem between Cylon/Human relations isn't their association with technology, but the very human condition itself?
That doesn't leave very fun options for the humans, does it?
I think what they were trying to establish is that humans didn't require technology to survive. They saw it as a hindrance to their greater relationship with the universe/Gods/God.
Other than abandoning higher technology for theory, what would you propose they do?
How would you rewrite this, Fugu?
While Fugu's rewriting a more worthy finale to BSG, I'll point out that the surviving colonists were a pretty random sampling of regular human-like creatures, somewhat more advanced than modern earth humans, but not by a whole lot.
Point is, while most of them were probably pretty skilled at maintaining technology, I'll bet only a small handful could create technology from the raw materials available on prehistoric earth.
Like, think about the people in an office. I'm sure there are a few people there who can maintain an email server, but probably no one who can build one using rocks and bark.
The ships in the fleet were pretty much breaking down, anyway, so it may not have been that much of a leap to say, hey, let's just get rid of them and start over--because that's what they would have to do in a couple of decades anyway. What's the point of a ship in a star system with only one habitable planet anyway? There isn't even any tylium here.
The great bulk of their technology was dedicated to maintaining a class-m environment for them in space, and helping them get away from the Cylons. With a nice planet, and no one chasing them, it seems those needs are covered.
They probably should have kept radio, because that's useful, but just think of the infrastructure they'd have to build just to keep making radios, and the batteries to power them.
Besides, it's not really "technology" they were abandoning. I doubt they stopped using levers to move heavy objects. Seems to me (after blathering on about it for several paragraphs) that what they were abandoning was the industrial complex needed to maintain their machines, not just saying no to radios and guns and FTL drives. They were saying no to power plants and factories and an industrial way of life to maintain their crumbling technological lifestyle. For a bunch of people who'd just spent the last few years of their lives running from their own technology gone awry, I think this is not the great leap you think it is. A decision like this A) would be well-received as the right thing to do by the general public, and B) is wise, because in the long run, it would all break anyway.
You're suggesting that the heart of the problem between Cylon/Human relations isn't their association with technology, but the very human condition itself?
Hmmm okay, yeah. One thing I think Moore was very successful at was showing that the Cylons were as human as anyone else.
That doesn't leave very fun options for the humans, does it?
Well neither does wandering off in the wilderness without a sherpa!
It's like our other discussion of atomic bombs versus slings and arrows. We're going to keep killing our neighbors as long as our HEARTS drive us to do it; technology does nothing but change the scale.
With his it's all happened before and will all happen again theme... If I were Moore and able to reboot the ending, this is the theme we're addressing. Here's some options:
0. Try to get rid of our ability to kill each other. Moore's choice, doesn't address the problem, doomed to failure without cutting off our limbs and giving everyone a lobotomy.
1. Kill everyone. Ironically, maybe they did choose right since they were all likely to die in the first winter.
2. Suppress/remove the urge to kill each other. Whedon, Card, Vinge, Orwell, Star Trek... they've all explored this. It's fun, but not the message he'd want to get across.
3. Rise above it. I think this would have been the most interesting ending, and they were well primed! He could even try to use religion if he had to, but I'd of course say that this is counterproductive and unnecessary...
****Ooo, epiphany moment!!!****
Remember when you said, Panic, that without the technologies of photography and the printing press we couldn't vividly document the horrors of war for all to see? And remember how Pony said that new technologies promote moral development?
Moore threw everyone back into the stone ages, and I would argue thusly demoting their moral development, keeping their culture ignorant about the horrors of war, and, following Moore's idea that BSG is our past: this is exactly what happened!
He just fucked us over on both accounts. All of our history is HIS fault.
So if we're going to rise above our moral shortcomings, we've got to keep growing as a culture. And there they they all were, finally, Humans and Cylons able to coexist with a strong moral structure and the ability and willingness to learn from their past. Moore should have focussed on this as the foundation for their society in the new world. If they had made the decision to stick with it and hope for the future, I think this would have been the most interesting ending.
You know what, I thought it was weird that they made Baltar's lawyer the President of the Colonies. I could see that after Tom Zarek murdered the Quorum of Twelve, pickings might be slim, but not that slim.
I'm not sure my idle suspicion that in some cases, technology can promote moral development is proof of anything. Common wisdom says otherwise, in fact. I mean, not that I'm not right. Of course I'm right.
"The entire human race with nothing but the clothes on their back and some provisions."
They left everything behind, dude. It's official as a crummy symbolic gesture. Otherwise they would have done it like they tried on New Caprica, but now with a hospitable planet:
Ground the ships, use them as the infrastructure for a city, keep the heavy machinery for producing power, goods, services, food, medicine. They left all of that behind, except for "some provisions".
Remember how freaking happy they all were to cannibalize Galactica for parts? As you say, they're mostly average guys who maintain email servers and manufacture goods. There's no way those same people would give all that up just because they found a planet. A new planet isn't all that more hospitable than a spaceship if you don't have resources or know-how.
ALL OF OUR HISTORY IS HIS FAULT.
Common wisdom? What common wisdom is that?
Yeah, but they wanted those parts so they could fix their ships so they could keep running away so they could do more coke.
No one was chasing them anymore.
Well that was fun!
Yikes! Well, just to poke the embers with a stick. But the first BSG, it is rumored, was based on the book of Mormon. Just casting that out there.
http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2009/03/21/lds-themes-in-battlestar-galactica-knowing-and-watchmen/
http://home.comcast.net/~billotto/Mormon_N_BSG.html
And now, for some gasoline!
Let's I'm pretty sure there's something going on here in the different ways we all interpret story, here. I do think, in most cases (including Starbuck disappearing, and even the "angels" at the newsstand talking about God), the presentation was open-ended enough to interpret the events how one would like. I mean, sure, there was a lot of talk of the divine, but the show, I believe, was not exactly brimming with Christian imagery or iconography. I'd go so far as to say it was consciously avoided, in fact, given the opportunities they had to take that particular storytelling shortcut.
In this long interview, Moore says this about the show's approach to these issues:
RDM: I think one of the things the show has said from the beginning – you know, Leoben says, in the first season episode “Flesh and Bone,” he says, “What’s the first article of faith – ‘Is this all that we are? Is this all that I am? Isn’t there something more?’” And I still believe that that’s part and parcel of the human condition, is that we continually ask ourselves, “Is this all that there is? Is there something more?”
And the furthest the show could go is to say, “Yes, there’s something more, but you may not understand what it is. It’s something there, and it’s something you can touch into, and it may influence your life, but it defies religion and ideology and dogma. But there’s something.”
This is kind of how I understood the Finale, and the show's approach to the divine goings-on (which I really don't think were at odds with each other). It's open to interpretation, and it's not what you think. The whole latter part series is kind of about noticing patterns in the chaos, and listening to them, because there's information there. It's not necessarily the Christian god, or even the god of the Cylons. It's something else. Maybe it's the underlying structure of the Universe; or paths worn by millions of yahrens of cyclical activity. Maybe it's a wormhole alien. Hard to say. What it does seem to be is unknowable.
What I'm hearing from you, Fugu, is that you feel that you're being driven to certain conclusions, and these conclusions are places you really, really resent being driven to: Technology is Bad, God is Real. I mean, these are things that really, really piss you off.
And what I'm saying is this: You are not being driven to these conclusions. It's a lot more open ended that you’re seeing it. But the finale leaving open the possibility that these are the messages of the entire show is driving you frothing mad with dark animal rage. I don't think Technology is Bad and God is Real are summary moral of BSG. If I had to guess what that was, I'd actually take a cue from the show's final line and sum it up this way:
It's not what you think.
Here's a match! Actually, I agree with you, Pony! At least when you say, "the show, I believe, was not exactly brimming with Christian imagery or iconography." Absolutely true. In fact, if you read through the comments, I think you were the first person to suggest that the judeo-christian mythology is something we tend to use as an effective shortcut. It's what Westerners do. As such, I think it would be an oversight to suggest that Moore didn't consider this in the end as well.
But lets get down to what we're really debating here. I'm okay with all the religious references if they're left open to interpretation: You say they still are, I say they're not. For me it's truly all about that one word, "he". You're likely to say that I'm being too critical, that the "he" doesn't really matter and has nothing to do with the point Moore was trying to get across. Or maybe you'll say that it agrees just fine with the direction he wanted to take the show. Here's why I believe he fucked up the end game either way.
Moore: And the furthest the show could go is to say,"Yes, there’s something more, but you may not understand what it is. it’s something there, and it’s something you can touch into, and it may influence your life, but it defies religion and ideology and dogma. But there’s something."
That's a whole lot of its, and not a single he. And because of Moore that's absolutely not the furthest the show went. This is the last statement in the entire four years of BSG (except for "Silly, silly me" *Sigh*). If there is going to be any sentence in the entire four years of the show that should be perfect, don't you think it should be this one?
In the interview you quoted his message is essentially this: there is something there, and it defies religion and ideology and dogma.
The idea of a single, monotheistic, male god is a very specific ideology, and this is what Moore told us was the truth at the end of the show. You can't just ignore this.
You said, "You are not being driven to these conclusions. It's a lot more open ended that you’re seeing it. ...It's not what you think."
To clarify, I'm trying to keep the ending as open as he let us. I'm pissed not because I think it's a Judeo-christian god, but that Moore forced us to see it as a a monotheistic, male god. This is true, dude: 45:17 of Daybreak, Pt. 3. How is this possibly open ended? Just because the all-powerful-male-entity-who-acts-alone doesn't like to be called God? That's a really mundane twist on a profound statement. The only way I think he could have made it less open is if Moore had named "he" Yahweh, or Buddha, or some other name. Moore specifically pigeon holed us into a very narrow dogma here, when before he had given us every opportunity to believe what we wish.
Open ended would have been if more Moore had used it, as he repeatedly did in the interview. That would have been great!!! It's all still open to interpretation! Is it even sentient? Just some power? A community? A species? A single organism? A hive mind? The INTERNET? A brain in a jar? It, could be any of those things! Hey, that's interesting!
He, can be only one of those things. Moore has cut all those options off. Does the fact that it took him less than a second to do it make it any less significant?
I guess I'll throw it back to you: what do you think Moore and the writers meant to say by choosing the word, "he"? Do you think it's phoned in or a well thought out choice? How is this open ended? Do you think it still doesn't matter? Keep in mind that this is the last thing he wanted us to believe, and what he wanted us to think. Moore's answer to four years of spiritual debate between Humans and Cylons, = some guy.
"dude: 45:17 of Daybreak, Pt. 3. How is this possibly open ended?"
You are so quoting scripture to fuel your argument.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLZ!!1one!!
Pretty sure they chose the word "he" because that's how they had been referring to the Cylon god all along. Using any other word would have broken the continuity there and made senseless the twist later in the line. Speaking of which, I think you're focusing quite a lot on the "he" part of the sentence and not at all on the "hates when you call him that" part. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the writers chose that phrasing to suggest "God" is a very bad description for this thing they're talking about. And yet, "God" is all you see! Why is that?
Imperious Leader doesn't like it when you call him by that name.
[emits high-pitched squeal]
Hmm, maybe we could come to an agreement if you actually read my comment. (teehee)
Re: "God" is all I see.
Actually, the last thing I wrote was that Moore ended it as some guy. Some guy who doesn't like to be called god. I think that I actually said, "I'm pissed not because I think it's a Judeo-christian god". Yes, I'm quite sure.
Re: Using any other word would have broken the continuity there and made senseless the twist later in the line.
Nah. I think that the people watching the show are pretty smart and wouldn't be confused with an open ended, original ending. Instead of this closed ended, pedestrian ending. And of course then Baltar could say "you know they don't like to be called that," or whatever. It seems like a stretch to me to say that any other word there would make the line senseless!
Re: "hates when you call him that" part.
Honestly, that line is just appears cheap to me. Moore's one distinguishing characteristic of his male god from every other male god we've invented is that he doesn't like to be called god? Wow. Real tuff!
Say, if we're going to go off into the world of conjecture instead of hard, visceral, sexy facts, then what really is Moore's last message to his audience? Are we just ignoring the elephant in the room?
What the hell was the meaning of Baltar's actual last words of "Silly, silly me"?!?
Maybe this is the Real Ultimate Key to the show, and we're just missing it! (because it's an even weaker line to end the show with.) Maybe this god-guy actually does like to be called god! Maybe the Six is reproaching him because she hates being wrong! Maybe polytheism did win, and The Six and Baltar are just picking favorites!
So what was Moore's final message? If he really wanted us to believe that his god doesn't want to be called god, why all this? Why didn't Moore make the Six Angel agree and say, "yes, that really is a stupid, stupid word."
Because despite the giant boner that would have given you, that would have been a stupid, preachy ending, making little sense in the context of the show. The existence of an underlying structure and will to the universe is pretty much a theme running through the fourth season (and earlier).
I'm not making any distinction between the Judeo-Christian god and some other monotheistic male god when I say that "God is all you see".
And using the pronoun "it" would have made absolutely no sense. I mean, play that one though in your head. It would've been completely out of left field, making even die-hard viewers like us think we'd missed an episode. What are they talking about? we'd ask ourselves. The gods of the 12 Colonies? (YAWN!) A brain in a jar? A hive mind? The Internet? Because that would be LAME, dude. All this pain and suffering, and it was the fucking Gamesters of Triskelion all along?
What I'm seeing here is that you kind of expected Moore to have abandoned themes building through the entire series, in order to give you an ending that didn't offend your politics. I honestly think you'd be thrilled if in that final scene the Six angel had said, "Well, if they don't embrace transgenic GMO foods, I guess the cycle WILL be broken, because they'll all starve to death."
There are a lot of ways to tack on endings that don't make you quite so uncomfortable, but everything you're suggesting here seems to lack any continuity with the show itself, and feel pretty undramatic to me as a result.
I know you don't like the conclusions that the show came to, but look at these conclusions in the context of the story, not as conclusions that necessarily have to be made in our world. In that universe, the universe clearly does have a will, and agents of that will. There's a lot of evidence to support it. And these people who have been through so much because of their technology might actually be okay with abandoning it in favor of a simpler life. It doesn't mean that technology is bad, or that you have to start worshipping Jesus, or that GMO foods are dangerous in real life.
I can't understand why you're getting so hung up on this, because you really like Harry Potter, and that has magic in it, which I know for a fact you also don't believe in.
I just checked, and the wording of the line, by the way, is "You know he doesn't like that name." Baltar drops into his Aerelon accent to say the words. There's something kind of winky about the whole thing, which I liked initially and still like. "Silly me. Silly, silly me" doesn't really make any sense, but it's very Baltar. And again, kind of winky! What follows is weird and kind of goofy montage of current advances in robotics. Therefore, the final message of the show appears to be "Be careful with all those robots you're building, because they will kill you." I have actually taken this message to heart. I have not built a single robot since the episode aired.
I didn't mean for that post to be as combative as it seems to me upon re-reading it. I really just wanted to make the point that you and I are looking at story differently; that you see story as necessarily didactic and prescriptive, and that I don't.
I didn't mean for that post to be as combative as it seems to me upon re-reading it.
Yeah! Wow, dude.
You wrote a bunch of stuff: a little I agreed with, half I thought was silly, and half I think missed the point. I then wrote a bunch of more stuff and quoted an interview with R. Moore contradicting himself, sounding like a jerk, and helping to prove that he blew the ending. I would be happy to post it all if you want but maybe we should take it to the e-mails!
I will finish with this. The way we both feel about Episodes I-III? That's how I currently feel about Daybreak Pt. 3. I would love to feel otherwise, but I believe the factual evidence is damning. Sadly however, I think we are unlikely to find equilibrium.
I liked Episode III.
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Hey, so what did the rest of you guys think of the finale?
I kinda liked it, although I can see the holes that Fugu (and others have pointed out). Although I think you guys have missed something critical. In the background theme music Bear McCreary has all this music tied into "all along the watchtower". If you factor that into everything, I think Moore is simply making a smart-assed retro 60's type statement: Bob Dylan is actually God(the imperious leader) and Jimi Hendrix is the second coming. I mean isn't it obvious? (well, after a joint or two, isn't it? Like totally?)
For the sake of all of our sanities, from here on out, all comments on this thread must be phrased as haiku.
BSG ending
Leaves Fugu disappointed
This Geek Girl agrees
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